Episode 3: Back to Work

Nicole kicks off a conversation about going back to work after you have a baby, which leads to stories about the weirdness of pumping at work, having to survive exhausting, tantrum-filled battles before you even make it to your desk every morning, struggling through a day of boring meetings when your baby’s been up all night, and … learning how to draw penises? 

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Transcript for Episode 3: Back to Work

Please note: this transcript is for anyone who needs to or would prefer to use a transcript than listen to the episode. We do our best but please excuse errors in the transcript. 

Women AF 0:00
This is a mortar box media podcast for more podcasts and to learn how we can help you create your own. Visit mortar box media.com.

Nicole 0:17
Welcome to women as the podcast hosted by three friends who bonded over entrepreneurial dreams, potty training gone wrong and plans to dismantle the patriarchy. Oh, and murder podcast. I'm your host. *laughing* I'm, I can't speak today. I'm your host, Nicole here. I got with me my co host, Danie.

Danie 0:41
Hey.

Nicole 0:41
Oh, and Carrie.

Carrie 0:42
Hello.

Nicole 0:43
Gosh, I butchered that intro. So fun. Okay, I put some difficult to pronounce words in that intro. I'm sorry. So

Danie 0:54
yeah, the late not even late but late for parents on a Friday night.

Nicole 0:59
It's Pretty... we're recording pretty late. And it's, you know what we're going to get what we get this is gonna be great. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. I feel like I haven't talked to you guys in forever because since we have recorded last I think that's the last time we've talked

Danie 1:14
well, Adam, our producer said that we are not allowed to talk to each other. So that we have to save the stories for the podcast.

Nicole 1:20
Yeah, so what has been happening guys tell me!

Danie 1:24
Can I start?

Nicole 1:25
Yeah.

Danie 1:27
So you all know I was running late on the way over here. And I was a little bit later than the late time that I thought it's going to be because so after Daniel got home, cuz you know, I can't leave until there's another parent in the house. Um, Nova had gone into the bathroom and shut the door. And she normally doesn't shut the door when she goes to the bathroom.

Nicole 1:50
Nova's your oldest right?

Danie 1:51
Yeah, she's three. Okay. So she's potty trained, but normally she doesn't go to the bathroom with the door shut and it was really quiet and says like I'm gonna go see what's going on. So open the door and she's there naked. And she's trying to change the toilet, roll the paper. And I was like, Hey, what's what's happening? And so I like walk in and like, she had gone to the bathroom and there was a log. Like, one of those are you look at it, and you're like, how did this come out of such a teeny tiny little body? Like as big as you are, but anyway, and so she had run out of toilet paper, and she was trying to change it. And which was cute. Yeah, well, the thing that holds the toilet paper fell into the toilet with the giant log in it. So, I've got a kid who was standing there naked is like, Mommy, it's wet and I'm like, it is not just wet. So as I'm like, already have my coat on. I'm holding my bag, like just getting ready to walk out the door. I'm like, okay, so I did the thing that Parents have to do fished it out, which is great. And you know had to clean everything. And the roll and everything.

Carrie 3:09
This is gonna sound weird. Do you have toilet tongs?

*laughing* toilet tongs?

Nicole 3:20
My husband is he's not a big fan of germs. And so...

Danie 3:26
Well, I'm a big fan of germs

Nicole 3:30
so on his birthday a couple years ago, I don't know something happened and he put like a roll of socks on the counter right next to the toilet. And then he accidentally hit it in the socks went in the toilet, and being a little scared of germs like he had a fit and so we had to get tongs, specially for the toilet and now we cannot use them for anything else. Except the toilet.

Carrie 3:56
That's not a bad idea.

Danie 3:57
It's not a bad idea

Nicole 3:58
and it comes in handy when you're We have you know, you have a three and a half year old. So yeah, because everything goes in the toilet.

Danie 4:05
Well, actually, neither my kids ever really did that where they would put things in the toilet.

Nicole 4:10
Oh really?

Carrie 4:10
Yeah, yeah. My kids did.

Danie 4:13
What's the worst thing they put in the toilet?

Nicole 4:15
Um, I would probably say her jewelry.

Carrie 4:18
Oh, no that's a good place to store it.

Nicole 4:20
Yeah, you know what? It was safe? Yeah, no one touched it. Yeah, there Yeah. Ultimate ultimate burn. So that's good.

Carrie 4:31
My question is where do you keep your toilet tongs? I'm...

Nicole 4:35
Okay, so where is in the bathroom and in the like, where you kind of keep your cleaning stuff

Carrie 4:43
like underneath the sink?

Nicole 4:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Danie 4:45
Are they in a bag?

Nicole 4:46
Yeah, we put it in like a bag. They are in a bag. Yeah. And a lot of times, like there's a barrier around. You know, but it came in. It's been really handy.

Carrie 4:59
Okay. Yeah, I might have to invest.

Danie 5:01
It's not a bad idea for cheap, so

Nicole 5:04
do it.

Danie 5:05
Yeah. Well, that's my story. I'll make it. Thanks.

Nicole 5:09
That's epic. That's fun. Carrie, what's been happening with you

Carrie 5:13
Hey, I've had a big week guys.

Danie 5:14
I know.

Carrie 5:16
I started a brand new job this past week.

Danie 5:20
Tell us about it.

Carrie 5:21
I'm very excited about it. Yeah, I'm very into it. Yeah. I mean, the culture just seemed like such a good fit for me. It's creative and lively. And people are super friendly. And people were like, stopping by to say hi and introduce themselves.

Danie 5:38
Oh, that's awesome.

Carrie 5:39
I like that. Yeah, I like it a lot in the work is is cool and exciting. Just it's kind of everything. Everything I was hoping for. Oh, yeah.

Danie 5:51
It's been a long time coming.

Carrie 5:53
Yes. Yes. It has quite the journey. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I just I'm I feel really Lucky.

Danie 6:00
Oh good. Yeah. That's so exciting. Hey. So what's, what's our topic today? What are we talking about?

Nicole 6:08
Well, it's my turn, hence the bad intro. So what I am going to talk about, and I hope you guys can help me talk about this, but we're going to talk about going back to work. And after you have your baby. So I have two kids, I have got a three year old and a nine month old. And or maybe she's 10 months anyway, doesn't matter. So after I've got a little story, but um, I wanted to talk about just the emotional toll it takes to be a working mom and leaving your kid and then on top of that some of the struggles of when you're at work. It's just that balance, like it's hard to do. That balance of caring for your kid and then also caring for your job and all that stuff. So I'm going to start with opening a story. My story is, when my oldest was born, I had I took the 12 weeks off, and it was really good.

I have always wanted to be a mom. Like That was my thing. I loved being a mom and I was so excited to be a mom. And so I went, I went back to work. That was really hard. Really hard. Like I remember crying for the first like month just driving to work. It was rough. But on top of that, there's some things that a lot of moms have to kind of arm themselves with knowledge. So for instance, I tried to breastfeed and there are laws around like mother's room and what companies have to, you know, supply for mothers rooms and my company. It was a little hard because there was a lot of there was a lot of men. I think I was the only pumping mom at the time. And I'm pretty sure I was one of the only moms with a young kid. So a lot of like, it was really hard because I would be trying to go into... they converted a - So I worked at a military and hunting company, and they converted a, like a gun mounting room because you will mount rifle scopes, and they would convert this and so when they weren't putting rifle scopes on those customer guns. I would like just barge in and be like, Hey, I gotta a nurse. I got a I gotta a , not nurse, but I have to pump for my kid. And everyone like I even brought out my pumping bag and everyone like scurried, like they were so scared. But it was really hard because I had times where I had to kind of stand up for myself and there were a few moms in the company that were coming up right After me, so I felt like I kind of had to stand up for them to where I would go into I would go into this room that would be technically considered like the lactation room. And there would be nothing. It would be super cold, there would be no chair. I had to do it on the floor, which isn't legal, but I had to pump on the floor. I also had to, like there was no table. There was nothing

Carrie 9:30
That's ridiculous.

Nicole 9:31
It was it was so bad. And I

Danie 9:34
think also pumping sucks by itself so like at all those on top of it and it's so bad.

Carrie 9:42
Even the cold part, like, come on you already have your shirt off,

Nicole 9:45
right, awkward and cold. And on top of that, like your hormones are still raging, because and it was my first kid so the whole like emotional leaving my kid just with somebody else and then having to deal with trying to provide for her and fighting about it. Oh, it was it was so rough.

Carrie 10:07
Did you get a lot of resistance.

Nicole 10:09
Um, yes. Because I think it was a lot of like I had to inform some people about the laws and what is required of mothers. So in a lot because it was mainly male dominated company. Yeah. They didn't understand

Carrie 10:29
What - they didn't at least think, hey, maybe a chair would be nice now

Danie 10:33
Or some heat.

Carrie 10:34
Yeah, yeah. Come on! Yeah, the pump. Yeah,

Nicole 10:39
yeah. That would have been nice. Yeah. But it was so sweet. So the end story was, I talked to somebody from HR, I think she was HR, and she's a mom, and she found out what was going on and she's like, this isn't happening. So then she decked out this little room with like a beautiful table. This super comfy chair, a heater, like a little space heater right there, and it's like cleaning wipes and like anything and everything I could ever need. She stocked this room and was like if you ever have issues, you come let me know.

Carrie 11:15
Awesome. Yeah,

Nicole 11:16
yeah, but it was rough.

Danie 11:18
I think that's awesome. I also think it's frustrating that it took like that another woman in HR had to stand up and say something like, Hello, okay, get that men maybe don't get it in the sense that they don't breastfeed or they don't pump, but at the same time, it's not like such a crazy concept. To not understand like, Oh, you had a human being and Oh, you are trying to provide nutrients for that human being and oh, you need to be able to do that. Like that's not a hard thing to understand.

Nicole 11:50
Yeah. And then like embarrassment, yeah. like

Danie 11:55
Yeah people are weird when you say...

Nicole 11:58
When you say you're going to the mother's room or Like, Hey, I gotta, you know, cut out of this meeting because it ran over because I, my boobs are huge. I gotta go pump right now like, you don't understand when and they like, even if, like I said, if I pulled out my pumping bag, people would like, Dart away from me like, I'd be walking to the room and they'd be like, uuuhhhhh and like, look down and like run away. Like I'm not carrying a bomb here guys, come on.

So what are what are your guys's experience with going back to work?

Danie 12:29
Well, so the first time I went back to work, I had to come back at seven weeks because I found out that I was only getting paid for one week. And that included like the short term disability or whatever.

Carrie 12:42
Oh, wow.

Danie 12:43
But at this company we had unlimited days off for vacation. So it would have been fine for me to take, say, a month of vacation. But for maternity leave, I was only getting paid for one week. And I was the first person at this company that I'm aware of that had had a baby while working there. And so they had, like, decided to create this new maternity policy, which is I could have one week off, and it was like, bullshit. Anyway. So then I came back and they were like, well, so for your pumping room, you can either pump in this closet or in the bathroom downstairs, which is also illegal. And, you know, the non ventilated closet that we have stored stuff in that was inside the conference room. So I would have had to take my stuff go into the conference room into the closet in the conference room. Yeah. And then like, go in and out while people were having meetings. Like, don't mind me

Nicole 13:45
Or listen in on meetings like, I'm fine, I'm in the corner.

Danie 13:48
Yeah, well, or and then of course, when they hear the pump like while in the meeting and the pump is like

And then they are like, what is that noise in the closet? So, I ended up getting a Freemie pump, which you can wear under your shirt, which is great. It wasn't quieter, but I could pump in my office because nobody could see it. So funny story is one day I was pumping at my desk when I had the door open because again, can't see anything, right. And these two I worked at a tech company. So these two dev guys walked in and they go, is there an owl in your office? Like, okay, see the logical thought for that question. I was like an owl. What are you talking about?

Carrie 13:54
*imitates pump noise*

Because, that's what an owl sounds like.

Danie 14:35
Well, we heard this noise and said, I'm like, No, I'm pumping. And they both like, got super pale. Like I just told them I had murdered somebody and they like slowly back out of the room. And I'm like, like, five seconds ago, you didn't even know what I was doing. And it was now that I told you, I'm pumping like you're freaking out about it. Yeah. And like the other kick is one of those two guys has four kids? Oh, come on. So it's like you need really late. Yeah, you've definitely seen this. Probably a lot like you saw like the, you know, the one that looks like you're, like pumping a cow or milking a cow. You know? Where your nipples are like giant and yeah.

Nicole 14:57
Our poor producer over here is like freaking out. Sorry!

Adam 15:26
I just I want to say one thing. Don't you think that maybe their reaction is more about they don't want you to feel embarrassed. That would be my reaction is like, Oh, I don't want to embarrass you. So like obviously this is a private moment. And so I'm gonna slink away.

Danie 15:42
I get why that you would think that because I also used to think like about breastfeeding moms like I would be like, well, I don't want to like for moms that would breastfeed in public. I don't want to like make her feel uncomfortable because this is a private moment. So I totally get that thought. But once you become a breastfeeding Mom, you're it's very Really just like, I just got to get this done. I just got to feed this kid and like,

Nicole 16:03
Isn't it common to that like, once you become a parent I know like after I gave birth, I was like, I really have no privacy anymore. I have a my like, what is that not? What am I? What word Am I looking for?

Carrie 16:17
Not sure

Nicole 16:17
I'm trying to say. But basically like I nothing was too sensitive. Nothing was like too... I lost the word,

Danie 16:30
Yeah, I know what you're saying.

Carrie 16:31
Yeah, I felt like it doesn't matter anymore.

Nicole 16:33
Yes, I yeah, I was desensitized. Like, I I have nothing like, I don't know.

Danie 16:39
I mean, I can honestly say especially because I've tried to help other women who were breastfeeding. I've seen a lot of nipples like more never really would have ever thought I was going to see and suddenly it's just like not a big deal.

Nicole 16:53
They're different, Right? Very different. All nipples are very different.

Carrie 16:57
Yeah, and beautiful.

Nicole 16:58
Yeah. All nipples matter.

Danie 17:02
I don't know if I beautiful - What does that mean? It just looks like a I mean men have nipples. When Nova discovered that everyone has nipples. There was a solid several weeks where she was like does daddy have nipples? Yeah. Does Grandma have nipples? Yeah. Yes. Does grandpa have nipples? Yes. Does this random person in the grocery store have nipples? And I'm like, Yeah, they probably do.

Carrie 17:25
Probably!

Nicole 17:26
I'm pretty sure that was my also my feeling when I took a so I was in a design school, and I took a drawing class. And of course in the drawing class, you have to draw the human form and being this little sheltered homeschool person. I didn't really fully realized what was going on on the man down there. So then I got to draw it.

Danie 17:51
Are you talking about a penis?

Nicole 17:53
Yes, I still can't say that word.

Carrie 17:55
Down there.

Nicole 17:56
Yeah, no, I had to draw it but then for the next Like, seriously Two months. I couldn't look guys in the face. Because I know what's happening down there.

Danie 18:06
You have a penis!

Nicole 18:07
Hi. Oh my gosh, how do you like function?

Carrie 18:13
I took life drawing too. And it's funny when because at first you're like, Oh my gosh, this is weird. Oh my gosh. And it's funny you look at all my drawings throughout that whole semester and in the beginning, the genital area is just like kind of blank... smudgy. Just real vague. Yeah, by the end I'm like every little hair.

Nicole 18:34
Oh, you got that far?

Carrie 18:35
Yeah. I got so used to it was just like yeah, here we go. Here's my perfectly detailed penis. Yep.

Nicole 18:41
Did you ace that class?

Carrie 18:42
I did

Nicole 18:42
Nice.

Danie 18:44
Speaking of detailed penises.

Nicole 18:46
Oh wow, that was awkward

Danie 18:47
We went to Italy last year.

Nicole 18:50
Okay.

Danie 18:50
And we saw the statue of David.

Nicole 18:52
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Danie 18:54
But, what like I feel like when you see things in history books, you're like, there's no way that in person like it's as Cool is like it's been made out to be in these books. Yeah, that was like, just mind blowing. It was so beautiful. But one thing that I said to the people I was with and I'm pretty sure that they all thought I was weird. They knew I was weird already, but I just kind of kept reconfirming that I was like, you can see the veins on the balls.This is so detailed!

Nicole 19:23
That is detailed! And for that time too!

Danie 19:26
yeah, I was like, and I wasn't saying if facetiously, the level of detail!

Nicole 19:34
Oh my gosh, it's nuts. It's nuts.

Danie 19:37
*laughing* It's nuts!

Nicole 19:40
Oh, geez. All right, Carrie, tell me about back to work for you.

Carrie 19:44
Um, you know, luckily, where I was working, had wonderful mother's rooms like all over the place, so that wasn't too much of a struggle. For me, it was mainly just the sheer exhaustion from being a new mom and then going to work full time every day. Yes, I already told you guys my kid didn't sleep. She didn't sleep at all. And I

Nicole 20:09
How long was your maternity leave?

Carrie 20:11
I think was 12 weeks. 12 weeks? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I didn't have that thing where I cried every day going to work. Because it was so rough. I was like, see ya! By kiddo!

Nicole 20:25
I get that.

Carrie 20:26
Yeah, but just the exhaustion just trying to keep going every day. I don't know how I did it. Looking back at how little sleep I had.

Danie 20:33
Yeah. And trying to say real words when you're in meetings with people, please. Yeah, you can't. Like they ask your questions and you have to like answer and make sense. That's really hard when you're not getting any sleep.

Carrie 20:48
It is very tricky, very hard.

Danie 20:49
And did you breastfeed? Did you pump?

Carrie 20:51
Yeah, yep, I did. Yeah, that was all awful. That every day you're like, seriously, I have to do this again? Yeah.

Nicole 21:00
We'll say, Okay, I know I'm under the unpopular belief, but breastfeeding in general sucks. Like, I never had that moment of like it's a beautiful bond. Like as I was breastfeeding both my kids I was like, this sucks. I'm Uh, I'm waking up early. Like I the only I think good side to it was I didn't have to worry about formula or a bottle. Yeah, I was like, Oh, well, Hey, I'll just put a boob in her mouth and hopefully

Carrie 21:32
I think that was a huge plus

Nicole 21:33
Yeah, and that's the only reason I kept going yeah, and otherwise like I never felt that like beautiful bond like, Oh, I'm giving you my body like I don't know. I don't know that. Did you guys have that beautiful moment.

Danie 21:47
A breastfeeding was an interesting adventure both times and very different. They were not at all the same either time. So with Nova... so I'm diabetic, which I As we mentioned and have pcos and Hashimotos, which is a pcos is polycystic ovarian syndrome and Hashimoto is is it affects your thyroid, oh, all three things affect milk supply. So I have chronically had undersupply, both times but with Nova, so in the hospital, they were like you have a perfect latch. This is great. But I did not have a perfect match. And I found out at about three weeks when my nipple cracked in half and I was bleeding. And then at one point, like Nova was bawling, and I was bawling. And I told Daniel, I was like, please take her away, like I need her to be out of this room so that I can calm myself down because it was like that kind of crying when you're like, panicky, crying and like, you just cannot stop.

Carrie 22:50
Yeah.

Danie 22:50
So we all calm down a little bit. He took her out of the room, and so I could gather myself back together and then he came back in and he's like, you know what, let's watch YouTube videos. And so Yeah and so for 30 minutes, we pulled up YouTube videos on like how to get a good latch and so this goes back to all those nipples. So we spent 30 minutes watching very not erotic videos of women nipples and feeding babies.

Carrie 23:18
Fun.

Danie 23:18
Yeah, it's great. And so then I eventually did get a good latch and then from that point on my nipple healed and in breastfeeding at that point was really smooth like once I got past that point, then it was just it ended up being very easy. I don't feel like it was like this great moment of bonding but it was just convenient and easy.

Nicole 23:38
Yeah.

Danie 23:39
And then with Phoenix and part of it, I think is because he was so big, so he was 11 pounds when he was born. Yeah. And he latched perfectly immediately. Okay, and I had no issues with latch still supply as both times at about six months I had major supply issues. But with him, he again Because he was so big, he would do cluster feeding. But he would cluster feed for four hours at a time. So I would literally be stuck in the chair for like four hours for the first six weeks of just being stuck there and being like, Can somebody bring me stuff? And he was he's just a hungry boy. And we just want to eat all the time. Yeah, but then you know back to the supply issues with Nova so at six months I was in I was working full time. I was also going to school full time or not full time I was going at night. I was considered full time and at night school, but it's only like two nights a week. And so I was pumping out work and then pumping at school. And so one night in class Daniels texting me and he's like, we are out of breast milk and we she will not eat the formula. She will not Drink it like I don't know what to do. She's screaming and I had my phone shut off. So didn't even know that he had messaged me, but I had only two, five ounce bottles on me. That's all I had pumped in the entire day. And so we came back and fed her obviously, she had ended up crying herself to sleep before I got home, which of course made me feel terrible. But then, and I was too far postpartum to get donor milk from the mother's milk Alliance, because they usually only donate up to six months. And I think we were just past six months. But a friend of mine had an oversupply, and she gave me 50 ounces.

Carrie 25:40
Nice.

Danie 25:41
Yeah. And so then that gave me some leeway to be able to pump more. And then I think at about eight or nine months, we did find a formula we could supplement with because at eight or nine months, like I was just barely keeping my supply up, and I was pumping all the time. And so at work, and at works, and it's hard when you pump it work because it's like, it's 15 minutes really is not enough time. 15 minutes twice a day is not enough to keep up your milk supply.

Carrie 26:11
No, cuz you gotta set it all. Yeah.

Nicole 26:14
Clean it afterwards

Carrie 26:15
Yes, yeah. Clean it out and you got to get the milk in the fridge.

Danie 26:17
Yeah. Yeah. And when you have supply issues, they want you to pump every two hours, usually.

Carrie 26:23
yes. And I went through that, too.

Danie 26:25
Yeah. And you can't do that at work,

Carrie 26:27
right. That's the thing. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this. I'm going to get this going. I had one boob was was fine. The other one was, like totally given out. And I'm like,

Nicole 26:36
Oh, yeah, do you? Do you have that too? Like the the one boobs bigger? They're like a power boob I think they call it

Carrie 26:43
Yeah, like the real week boob, but yeah, right. Yeah, but yeah, I was at work and I'm like, I'm just gonna do this. I'm just gonna just go pump a ton of times all day and that didn't that didn't last. Yeah, you know, it's just so hard because also I had to work.

Danie 26:57
Yeah, they actually expect you to, you know, do stuff

Carrie 27:01
It's tough finding that balance between kid and work.

Nicole 27:05
Yeah. What do you guys do with because I know when they're that little and you're trying to, you know, figure out them and figure out work and how this all plays in how did you guys deal with like doctors appointments and all that because they can have a lot of doctors appointments in the beginning.

Danie 27:22
For me, I usually just worked from home and took them to the doctor. Yeah. And then if it was, you know, depending on if it was one where they got shots, I would usually stay home with them or keep them home with me. If it's just a regular checkup, I would take them back to the daycare and then just keep working.

Nicole 27:40
Yeah, that works

Danie 27:41
but it's a lot and there's like a, you know, my job is more flexible with working from home then Daniels is so the onus tends to be heavier on me. And he doesn't like we have unlimited sick days they have like X amount. So then, you know, the burden tends to go on the parent with the most flexibility to always do the appointment.

Nicole 28:02
Right? Yep. Right? Yes. That's so fun for the longest time I. So you know when the they get their shots and they have you like hold them down. Yeah, that sucked. So for both my kids I'm like my husband, Jared, please. You need to go with me. You need to hold them down because I'm going to cry in the corner. I can't do that.

Carrie 28:22
You take a turn.

Nicole 28:23
Yeah, yeah. So he he showed up like a champion, every single appointment. He was there. And he held down both our kids and they would get a shot and then I'd be like, Okay, let me have him and he was like, No, I want to cuddle them now. Like I held him down. Can I just cuddle him for a sec? So it was really nice.

Danie 28:42
Do you want to know a good shots trick?

Nicole 28:44
Yes.

Danie 28:45
Put an ice pack on their legs right before they get the shot.

Nicole 28:48
Oh, really

Danie 28:49
Because it numbs it just a little bit so they don't feel the Poke as much? Yeah, it is a lot and with Nova if we tell her she's going to get a shot and it's going to hurt just a little bit. She'll be fine.

Carrie 29:01
Really?

Danie 29:02
Yeah. It's crazy. If we don't tell her what's gonna happen, she gets real mad about it.

Carrie 29:05
Oh, yeah. See, we have to do it the other way. Oh yeah, we can't tell them ahead of time they'll lose it. It's harder when they get older. It's terrible when they're babies. But it's so much harder when they get older and they know what's going on. Right and they can fight you.

Danie 29:20
I used to hide behind the table at the doctor's office, if I knew I was going to get a shot. There's a lot of irony there being that I'm diabetic.

Carrie 29:28
Oh, man

Danie 29:29
yeah, I had such an intense fear of needles growing up, that I would faint every single time Even now, when I give blood I have to lay down because there's a pretty high likelihood that I'm gonna faint.

Carrie 29:42
Wow.

Danie 29:43
But there's something different about giving yourself shots. And now I wear an insulin pump. So it's just like one shot every three days.

Carrie 29:51
So you don't have to worry

Danie 29:52
and I don't have to see it. Yeah,

Nicole 29:54
yeah, that's nice. And But seriously, you would rather give yourself a shot than like somebody else giving you a shot and looking away

Danie 30:00
Yes, One Hundred percent.

But also like the diabetic needles are a lot smaller than the needles that you get when you're getting shot. Yeah, they're like, I don't know, a quarter of an inch long, like, nobody that's listening can see this but like a quarter of an inch long with like a half an inch, which is like the intramuscular shots. Yeah. So when you give insulin, it's got to go into the fat. So the fat is like the shallowest part and then if you're getting like certain shots, they need to go into your muscle, which is why they tend to hurt more like if you get a flu shot. That's why your arm is sore because they like put it in the muscle.

Nicole 30:32
Oh, yeah. I've heard to where like, if it hurts really bad. It's because of when they put the anti anti... the, the soapy thing... the alcohol.

Like that's not a thing, the alcohol on it and if it doesn't dry, then it like goes in and then that's how that makes it hurts. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It was crazy. Um, what question I was going to ask It was gonna be a great question, I'm sure. Right? Um, how how did you guys deal with like the emotional side effect of like you said Carrie you liked you liked having a work to go back to, like you were a ready to go

Carrie 31:13
I was ready to go back to work for sure.

Nicole 31:15
Yeah. How did you guys do nights then? Cuz you said your your first was pretty colicky and she didn't sleep much right?

Carrie 31:21
Yep.

Nicole 31:22
How did you do nights? Was it all you?

Carrie 31:23
It was mostly me, especially during the breastfeeding part because that was what we relied on and my husband doesn't have breasts. So

Danie 31:35
Well, he does they just don't make milk

Carrie 31:36
Well, yeah, good point yep. So that's why I mean, I was up. I was up all the time. And there was and she was crying all the time. And that was like we, like you've talked about before. I did have that beautiful bonding experience breastfeeding, because I think it was probably because that was the felt like the only time she wasn't crying. So I was like, oh, now we're happy. Everyone's happy now. Yeah, I

Nicole 32:03
Don't you feel like you have a superpower.Like I can make her cry.

Carrie 32:06
Oh, yeah. And so that's beautiful in the middle of the night. That's true. That's true. I loved it. I thought it was so easy. I just grab her and

Danie 32:14
Did you co-sleep?

Carrie 32:15
Yeah. Yeah.

Danie 32:17
That makes it easier too, Yeah,

Carrie 32:19
definitely. Yeah.

Danie 32:20
Nova, did not want to go sleep.

Carrie 32:22
Really?

Danie 32:23
She did not. She wanted her space. Even at three months old. She has like get off away from me. Even now. She's kind of like that. She does crawl into our bed more now than she used to. But like Phoenix was a cuddler. Hmm, very different.

Carrie 32:39
Both my kids wanted to be right up on me. Yeah. Yeah.

Danie 32:46
When? When we so with Nova because of the supply issues, she didn't really nurse much in the middle of the night. She was sleeping through the night at six weeks. So what would happen It is Daniel

Carrie 33:02
I just, I just flipped Danie off from across the room

Danie 33:06
Daniel would feed her a bottle of expressed breast milk at night and I would go to bed early and then I'd wake up and feed her with Phoenix. It was again he would do these for our cluster feeding So up until eight months I would wake up four times a night to feed him and we tried to do it where Daniel would do one of the bottles but by the time he would get the bottle ready I was just like

Carrie 33:34
nevermind

Danie 33:35
Yeah, just I could have just fucking done this already. Yeah. And so it was faster for me to just go feed him and then go back to bed even though it was four times a night

Carrie 33:46
but that way everyone can get back to sleep faster and you don't have to listen to the yelling and the screaming in the ground, right

Danie 33:51
because then you just awake and then I'm awake until Daniel would come back to bed anyway because like my anxiety It was like

Carrie 33:57
Yeah, exactly.

Nicole 34:00
I my oldest. She was she was like Phoenix where she was like a powerhouse. Wait, no, I had that backwards. No, wait, hold on, hold on. I got this. So my youngest was a powerhouse. They the nurses say like, she treated it like turkey dinner like a Thanksgiving dinner. Like she would just eat and eat and eat and eat for a long time when my first was called a snacker. So she would like just eat enough to you know, take the bite off of being hungry, and she just eat just enough and then she could go to sleep or whatever. And so the difference in that was really hard because for Mali, my oldest, the snacker she would she would sleep really well. Also sorry, Carrie, but but she would sleep at like six weeks. But we would have to wake her up because she would go eight to nine hours without eating and she was In the fifth percentile for weight, like super, super little, and so we would wake her up after six hours and have to like make her nurse and make her feed. But then with my second She is like she loves that turkey dinner like she'll eat and eat and eat and eat all day all night. So it's been a it's been a hard transition because my first was such an easy baby I think and then with Emmy, now she kind of co-sleeps least a little bit more because she's a little bit more wanting to nurse all the time. And she's more of a mommy's girl. So she's like all over me. Like I walk into the house. And the minute she hears me open the door like she's crawling as fast as she can. And then if I go to the bathroom or like, hold on, I need to run to the bathroom. She will start bawling her eyes out. Like, she sees me and is like what's happening? like she just starts crying. It's so sad and it breaks my heart

Carrie 35:55
It's sweet though

Nicole 35:56
is really sweet

Carrie 35:57
It's nice to be loved.

Nicole 36:00
I like to take my jacket off before I go

Carrie 36:02
Alright, yeah, okay

Danie 36:03
I enjoy going to the bathroom by myself,

Nicole 36:06
Oh right

Danie 36:07
those luxury moments being a mom.

Today I was going to the bathroom. And I heard a bang which the worst thing to hear when you're going to the bathroom and then no more comes running back screaming and Phoenix had dropped his milk and so she's trying to mop it up. And she hit herself in the head with the mop and she like comes running back and I'm like literally pants down sitting on the toilet and she like buries her face in my lap and she's crying. And I'm like, well this is awkward

And then I was like, do you want a cookie? And she's like yeah! It's like, Okay, great. Now I have two minutes.

Nicole 36:47
oh my gosh, can we just talk about that reminded me of like, how when you first get to work. You already basically fight a battle. Like it was so before I had kids, when I got to work. I'm notorious I sleep in I love every ounce of sleep I can get. But when I had kids, instead of just throwing on my clothes and running out the door like I have full on tantrum battles, because I'm in that tantrum state not me, my kid is

Danie 37:18
One of us is tantruming and guess who it is

Nicole 37:22
but I have like full on battles with my kids trying to get them to daycare and then I end up getting to work and I'm like, exhausted, but it's only eight o'clock in the morning and my gosh, already went through so much,

Carrie 37:35
but at least you get to sit down you get to sit down and it's quiet and like don't you just appreciate work so much more. Now.

Nicole 37:42
I do until someone comes up to me and like a panic, like, we need to get this done. I'm like, Okay, do you know what I just went through? Like, calm down, give me a minute.

Danie 37:51
Last week, I was two days my mom watched the kids so I just got to get ready and leave like and it's funny because now when it's just me getting myself ready. I'm like, I have so much time like an hour just seems like the most outrageous amount of time to get ready because I can get ready in like 15 minutes. So like, you know, I put on lipstick and I did my hair and I actually like picked an outfit that wasn't like what's the fastest thing I can grab. So I came into work and like my co workers were like whoa looking festive. And then the next day, I had to take everyone to the backup Center at work. And so I had to get everybody ready and I woke up later than I should have to get three of us ready. And now you're rolling and I have like, oversized sweatshirt and leggings on and my friend Jesse from where it goes. Uh, so not as festive today.

Like, that's the difference on mornings that I'm just getting myself ready and mornings that I'm getting me plus the kids ready right now. Those mornings that we look really rough, there's a reason. Yeah, I've been up for three hours already. And I've spent most of it corralling a one and a three year old.

Carrie 39:13
Yeah, it doesn't get that much better easier when they get older. Just so, you know, it's just different but yeah, it's like still like, how many times do I tell them in the morning to go get dressed? Please go get dressed. Go get dressed now. Now get dressed, you know, it's the same every morning, brush your teeth and all the things they just can't seem to do it. Yeah,

Nicole 39:38
I feel bad. So I think I've instilled my competitive nature into my kids, because already at three years old, I'm trying to get them out the door by saying like, I think your friend is gonna beat you to daycare. Let's beat her and so like that gets her out the door and it's beautiful. But now like she gets to daycare. She's like, Ah, you beat me. Again.

Carrie 40:04
Got to do what you got to do though, right?

Nicole 40:06
Isn't that truth about motherhood to like you got to do what you got to do

Carrie 40:09
Got to do what you got to do to get through it? Right?

Danie 40:12
Yeah, some days like when you have a real bad hangover and you let them watch their tablet for way too long. You just don't you can't feel guilty about it.

Carrie 40:23
Probably watching something really education. Sure.

Danie 40:25
Yeah, definitely. She watches Baby Shark in Spanish a lot. And I caught her watching Baby Shark in Indonesian the other day

Carrie 40:35
Really?

Danie 40:35
Yeah, I actually had to look it up. I did not know that it was indonesian. I just need to like clarify that I cannot hear that and know I had to Google it like, what language is this also, how did you find this?

Carrie 40:51
You know, they're crafty. Oh my gosh.

Nicole 40:53
All right. Well, I think that's a good ending.

Danie 40:55
The other thing that we did this week was we actually set up our Patreon and I was supposed to say that earlier and I forgot, so I'm going to say it right now real fast.

Nicole 41:03
I like it.

Danie 41:04
So we because we have to save up all these stories all week long, which is really hard. We will sometimes communicate with each other on social media in a way to like leak some of this out. So if you want to and we were going to put some behind the scenes content and some really fun stuff on our Patreon page. And there's merch a lot of really fun things and all the merch is designed by Nicole. So that's real fun. So you can find our patreon at www.patreon.com/womenafpodcast. And since we are new at this really even just one person subscribing, would really get us excited

Carrie 41:51
We would have a party

Danie 41:51
we would have a party

Nicole 41:53
You have no idea

Carrie 41:53
And we will invite that one person. Oh yeah, please.

Danie 41:56
Is that a perk? Well, unless it's a creepy person

Nicole 41:59
Yeah, don't be creepy

Carrie 42:00
Nevermind we're not going to invite you

Danie 42:01
I mean, you can still sponsor us if you're creepy but we just won't invite you to our party.

Nicole 42:07
Yes, I like that.

Danie 42:08
Yeah. Okay, that's what I was supposed to say.

Nicole 42:10
All right everyone, thank you for listening and we are Women AF and we hope you are too.

Women AF 42:25
Women AF is produced by Mortar Box Media and Engineered by Adam Rostad.

Intro and Outro Music is SQZ by Shane Ivers. Check him out at silvermansound.com
Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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