Episode 6: SCIENCE!

On today’s episode; we introduce our very first guest, Jamie! Jamie, a microbiologist, talks about what it’s like to be a woman in STEM, but first we all get a bit derailed when the topic diverts to cake farts.

Listen to the full episode: 

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Show Notes and Resources:

Are you a woman in STEM? Do you have a crazy story about cake farts (or something not about cake farts)? Or do you have any questions you’d like to ask our lovely guest, Jamie? Write in to womenafpodcast@gmail.com or connect with us on social media at:
Check out on of Jamie’s favorite studies on Women in STEM here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3478626/

Become a Women AF Podcast Patreon supporter for exclusive behind the scenes material, to have an opportunity, submit questions for a listener’s FAQ, vote on topic ideas, and get a bunch of great freebies - like Merch! (Who doesn’t love merch)!

Women AF is produced by Mortar Box Media and Engineered by Adam Rostad. 
Intro and Outro Music is SQZ by Shane Ivers. Check him out at silvermansound.com


Transcript for Episode 6: SCIENCE!: 

Women AF 0:00
This is a mortar box media podcast for more podcasts and to learn how we can help you create your own visit mortarboxmedia.com

Danie 0:17
Welcome to Women AF the podcast hosted by three friends who have bonded over entrepreneurial dreams potty training gone wrong and dreams of dismantling the patriarchy. Oh and murder Podcast. I am your host Danie and I am joined today by my co host, Carrie.

Carrie 0:36

Danie 0:36
and Nicole

Nicole 0:37
that's me.

Danie 0:38
And because I'm nervous and we're just going to go straight into the introduction. This is our first episode that we have a guest joining us. So we are have my cousin in law, Jamie joining us. Just a quick introduction and then can BS little bit because that's the fun stuff, right? Jamie is super awesome. And she is a woman in science

Danie and Jamie 1:11

Nicole 1:12
We missed our queue Carrie!

Carrie 1:15
I didn't know that was a thing!

Danie and Jamie 1:18
um, and recently we were hanging out for, you know, Christmas family stuff. And I thought, I mean, Jamie and I and spouses, hang out and do game nights and stuff periodically, but I never really reached out more frequently because I thought Jamie was too cool for me. But she recently told me that she doesn't think she's too cool. Um, when we brought up the idea of a guest, I was like, Hey, I have an idea. And that's how we're here.

Jamie 1:53
I also kind of begged to drag me into this because I've always wanted to be on a podcast.

Danie 2:04
I got to be friends with someone who's too cool for me. And you got to be on podcast Win win. It's a win win. So yeah, but actually, I wanted to ask Nicole

Nicole 2:17
Oh, that's me

Danie 2:18
before as before we get started yeah Nicole we have been dying to hear a story from you for like three weeks. Oh my gosh yeah cuz Adam doesn't let us talk to each other - as we've said that on all platforms. We are only allowed to talk to each other if it's pre-approved by him.

Nicole 2:44
Well, I guess my so I have an awkward Nicole story, which I feel like we can make a whole segment on like how awkward Nicole is all the time

Danie 2:52
noted for future.

Nicole 2:53
Yeah, okay. Yeah. So this in this week's episode of awkward Nicole. I have Have so you know so I go to church and you know when that awkward part right, right after worship and you greet people you're like, hey,

Danie 3:08
yeah. Shake your hands with the people around you.

Nicole 3:11
Yeah as like, Hey, get to know your people. So I, you know, you're what you're supposed to do is shake hands. Say good morning. Sit down real fast. Like super fast like, like you're on a game show fast. Okay, well, I didn't do that I was shaking hands and then my mouth just like went without me understood like I was drunk. I wasn't drunk at church, but it felt like I was. So I was shook her hand and ice. I said, Wait, do you volunteer on here because I feel like a recognize your face. I said it like that. And she. She stopped and she's like, Oh, yeah, I think I recognize your face, too. Which I know she didn't like, there's no way she was appeasing me. I'm like, Oh crap, but I'm in it. Like, I'm in it for all of it. So I have to just keep going with it. So I'm like, oh, when we started comparing notes and like, well, Where do you work? Do we have that in common? Nope. And we went through the whole list of like, Where do you live? Where do you work and this whole list and out of nowhere she's like, Oh, no. Okay. And we just like sat down. I'm like, oh, gosh, now, I just made an awkward person of me.

Carrie 4:33
So you didn't know her?

Nicole 4:34
Yeah, I didn't know her.

Carrie 4:34
You didn't know her at all.

Nicole 4:36
I had no idea who she was. So I just went up and just sat down and I'm like, this is awkward.Of course.

Carrie 4:42
I bet you do though.

Nicole 4:44
There's the same thing. Yes, I know her or she's got a twin or a doppelganger.

Carrie 4:50
She would have said she had a twin.

Nicole 4:52
Yeah, I think how we ended it was like okay, well, I guess I know you in a past life and I just like sat down.

Carrie 4:57
That's fine. That's that awkward. You had to ask.

Danie 5:00
Right. Yeah, I think that's normal. I recognize people's faces and not their names all the time.

Nicole 5:05
But do you ever say it? Like, for me, that's what was awkward is like, I sometimes recognize people and then I kind of play dumb like, Oh, I guess we do know each other. When for some reason my brain was like, You must say it.

Danie 5:20
Usually what happens is, if I see somebody recognize I don't remember I try to hide.

Nicole 5:25
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Danie 5:26
So that they don't try to communicate with me and then me not have that awkward moment where I'm like, I don't really know who you are. Yeah, I mean, like I remember. And then or if I like remember who they are, but I can't remember their name. That's the other thing. That's really hard. Oh, man.

Jamie 5:46
And I've lived in like, what feels like a million different places.

Danie 5:50
So it's like, it doesn't make it any easier.

Jamie 5:51
Yeah, you see someone you're like, Okay, do I know you from this place or that place? And I feel terrible for having forgotten their name.

Danie 5:57
What do you do in that moment? Do you have like a method? Do you like... Hey, honey? Yeah.

Jamie 6:04
Well, I don't talk to people so...

Carrie 6:09
Just put your head down and run!

Danie 6:12
Does that happen to you? Yeah, yeah. What do you do?

Carrie 6:16
Hey, just a "Hey!" and a head nod and keep moving.

Danie 6:21
I have a thing that I do with Daniel and maybe I shouldn't say this on the air because I don't remember their name. But I'll and I'll be like Hey, have you met my husband Daniel? Honey, can you introduce yourself? And that's how he knows I don't remember their name. And he'll say Hey, I'm Daniel, what's your name? And then that's the time he remembers if he doesn't remember then I'm like, shoot. What do I do

Jamie 6:50
What if you're alone

Danie 7:00
I'll do the same thing. This is my husband

Carrie 7:01
And you'll just point to the air

Nicole 7:02
And then they run

Danie 7:12
works either way. Yeah. If you think I'm crazy. You won't to talk to me. Yeah.

Nicole 7:16
Yeah, I think that makes sense. I like that. I think it works.

Danie 7:19
So what we're saying is it really wasn't that awkward. I don't think so.

Nicole 7:23
I hope not. I'm sure it was. I'm just not remembering all the details.

Carrie 7:30
No. It was fine.

Danie 7:33
Yeah, I agree.

Nicole 7:36
That's good. Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

Danie 7:38
So today, we're going to change up our format a little bit. Yeah. And we're going to interview a woman of science.

Danie and Jamie 7:49

Danie 7:49
By the end of this recording, we will all get it so that we are all together.

Nicole 7:53
Where did that come from?

Danie 7:54
Trivia, right? I think so. That's how I that's how I know it.

Jamie 7:56
Yeah, that's how I know it.

Danie 7:57
Yeah, it's a trivia thing. So when they introduce Like the the category of question you're going to get whenever they say science literally everyone goes... SCIENCE!

Nicole 8:08
in your group or like everyone at the bar does that.

Danie 8:12
Everyone at the bar. Yeah. Any trivia I've ever done

Nicole 8:14

Danie 8:14

Nicole 8:15
Oh, I didn't know.

Jamie 8:16
It's like a trivia subculture thing.

Danie 8:17
It is a subculture thing. I bet there's a subreddit for trivia.

Jamie 8:19
Oh, there's a subreddit for everything!

Danie 8:22
True. We should find that subreddit. I just recently got into Reddit, which I don't know why it's taken me so long.

Jamie 8:29
I've been on Reddit for like five years but only recently within the last year got really involved.

Danie 8:35
Yeah, so I've been on Pinterest been following Reddit / Pinterest.

Jamie 8:43

Danie 8:44
Which is like a sub-subreddit of pinterest

Jamie 8:48
You just went down a really deep hole there.

Danie 8:49
Well, they screenshot like the best of Reddit. And so you get kind of a highlights, which really is great because then I don't have to go find them. But I I don't know if anyone's a big Pinterest person. Are you Pinterest person?

Jamie 9:03
I haven't been on for a while,

Nicole 9:05
Oh, yeah, I am.

Danie 9:06
Have you ever gone into the fandoms of Pinterest?

Nicole 9:11

Danie 9:11

Nicole 9:12
I guess I'm not that good about it.

Danie 9:13
So if you get into any type of fandom culture on Pinterest, yeah, and you you know how you click an image and then you can do related and then if you have go down deep enough. Yeah. It's like when you go into the hole of YouTube or Wikipedia, it gets real weird.

Nicole 9:32
Does it?

Danie 9:33
Like I have found sub-sub fandoms that are like, sub-fandom plus porn.

Nicole 9:45
Oh. So, way down there.

Danie 9:47
Pinterest. Yeah. And they're like, but it's like fan art, but also porn. Yeah, sorry.

Like Deviant Art?

I was laughing Carrie who just hurt herself.

Carrie 10:02
I hit my funny bone.

Nicole 10:03
Oh No.

Carrie 10:05
Sorry. Sorry, Carry on.

Danie 10:07
What was your question? I got distracted. fandom. What was your question?

Jamie 10:12
I don't know.

Danie 10:12
Okay. But Pinterest gets real weird when you start to dig deep into it.

Jamie 10:19
Oh, like, yeah, like a Deviant Art. And then

Danie 10:22
once Yeah, and it's not like a Deviant Art, but then it's like Deviant Art plus porn.

Jamie 10:27
Well, I think once you get into fandom deep enough, it's porn. It's Yeah.

Danie 10:33
That is true. And there's a lot of ships. A lot of shipping that I wouldn't expect.

Jamie 10:41
Like, yeah, I could see that

Danie 10:42
or they don't know what that means. Shipping

Carrie 10:44
I know what shipping is

Danie 10:45
Oh, you do? Okay. Do you know what shipping is?

Nicole 10:48
like shipping a package?

Carrie 10:49

Danie 10:51
It's a it's a term for fandoms where it's like relationship means relationship. So like, I'm shipping you know this perso plus, this person.

Carrie 10:59
How Dare You think I don't know what that is

Danie 11:01
I'm sorry

Nicole 11:02
Well, I didn't know

Danie 11:03
like, sometimes it's like different fandoms together so like Elsa and jack Frost is a big shipping situation.

Nicole 11:16
Whoa mind blowing

Danie 11:19
yeah so if you go on Pinterest and you look up Elsa and Jack Frost and then click click click click click then there's and it's porn. Yeah.

Nicole 11:25
Oh okay interesting

Danie 11:28
but it's like Elsa and Jack Frost porn.

Nicole 11:30
That's Weird

Danie 11:31
If you're into that you're welcome whoever's listening if you're into that. Now you know where to find that very specific...

Nicole 11:36
Now you have that image burned into your brain

Carrie 11:39
Speaking of port. On the way over here I was listening to this podcast called box of thoughts. I've never heard it before. It was very entertaining. And they brought up cake farts porn


Danie 11:54
Cake Farts.

Nicole 11:55
You don't know what that is, Carrie?

Carrie 11:56
Alright Nicole, come on.

Danie 11:59
Well, Nicole - who's never seen port. I'm going to recommend that this is the first one you watch based on the description I heard on my way over here

Nicole 12:09
just because there's cake involved?

Danie 12:11
No, just because it's weird. But basically what it is from again just the description I heard in the podcast I have not watched this so I'm just gonna clarify is it is exactly what it sounds like somebody takes cake and puts it up there butt... and then farts. And by the description of the video the actress in the video starts by seductively removing her cardigain.

Nicole 12:43
And this is like a thing?

Danie 12:43
And the school girl skirt, which what it has to do with cake. I don't know. And I guess it's a thing.

Carrie 12:50
Eww. So, I know it's porn, but just thinking about the two elements involved. It's my six year old would like this.

Nicole 13:00

Carrie 13:02
yeah, okay, Not that I would let my six year old watch it.

Jamie 13:06
okay kids inherently really really crumbly. How does that work?

Women AF 13:11
Well, I just want to say I feel like we need to say Women AF and mortar box media do not advocate showing six year old porn if there's cake or if there's not.

Carrie 13:26
that was not what I meant. Nevermind!

Danie 13:33
Never show children any kind of porn. That's a bad idea. But let's go back to the physics of cake farts. We have the scientist here.

Nicole 13:43
Oh yeah.

Jamie 13:45
Well, in the absence of let's remove the porn from it. Let's talk about maybe you want to I don't know have a real tight rubber band. You want to try and get some cake in there?

Carrie 13:58
Like a balloon a balloon? Yeah,

a non-blown up balloon.

Danie 14:00
Okay, you want to put cake in a balloon. Before we get into the physics of cake farts let's take a quick break.

Madison Story Slam Ad 14:18
Hey guys, it's Adam here from mortar box media and Madison story slam. just telling you that if you are in the Madison area on Saturday, February 15, you should come on out to the Madison story slam five year anniversary party. It's going to be a really great time. We've been doing storytelling events in Madison and a podcast for five years now. And we really want to celebrate with you. We've got 15 great storytellers lined up to tell some amazing stories. We're going to have food and as always, we're going to have great beer from Ale Asylum. We will be at the Wilmar center Doors open at six and stories start at seven, come early if you want to be sure to get a seat at a table, oftentimes those fill up very quickly. So come early, closer to that six o'clock opening door time. Again, you can find us Saturday, February 15, the day after Valentine's Day at the Willmar center in Madison, Wisconsin to celebrate five years of storytelling, five years of building community through storytelling, and five years of hearing my voice. Hope to see you there.

Danie 15:34
And we're back with cake farts. So, let's talk about physics. If you want to stuff cake in a balloon, is that what we're doing?

Jamie 15:42
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about.

Nicole 15:43
Wait, can I ask what kind of scientist like oh, you know, cake Really? Well. Is that the science here?

Jamie 15:48
No. Well, then, oh, no, I was just Yes. That's just how my brain works. I am a microbiologist. So okay. I'm a really tiny tiny, tiny biologist.

Danie 16:09
So do you study cake?

Jamie 16:11

Danie 16:12
Do you study farts?

Jamie 16:13

Danie 16:14
Then what? Let's talk about what you study and let's get off the topic of cake farts.

Jamie 16:19
Good idea.

Danie 16:20
Let's talk about what does it mean to be a microbiologist?

Jamie 16:24
So microbiology is a kind of a sub-study of biology. You know, things like animal biology, genetics at all under the giant biology. microbiology is the study of bacteria and viruses.

Nicole 16:44

Carrie 16:46
So what does that mean you do all day?

Jamie 16:48
Yeah, I look for poop in water.

Danie 16:52
Okay. In drinking water?

Jamie 16:54
Yes, And swimming water too

Nicole 16:56
like animal poop... or?

Jamie 16:58
It can be

Nicole 16:59
Can you tell the difference?

Jamie 17:02
That was part of my master's degree. Yes. You can only you can tell. You can tell the difference.

Danie 17:06
You had a master's degree in telling the difference between the source of the poop?

Nicole 17:09
A masters in poop?

Jamie 17:12
I do!

Danie 17:12
Interesting! No, I believe you. Yeah, very cool. So how did that research go?

Jamie 17:20
It went, Okay. I got a paper out of it. So that was nice. So

Danie 17:23
a lot of looking at poop in a microscope?

Jamie 17:26
No, no. So what I study or what what I studied is, is groundwater basically. And then Wisconsin that's really important here in the Midwest, Wisconsin.

Danie 17:38
What makes it important in Wisconsin?

Jamie 17:40
We are one of the only states that gets 90 plus percent of its drinking water through the groundwater, a lot of other states use a lot of surface water like Milwaukee uses like Michigan,

Women AF 17:51

Jamie 17:52
Most of the rest of Wisconsin uses groundwater

Danie 17:55
and just for those other people who might not understand the difference groundwater would be water under the ground under the surface. Yes. Okay. Not that I was one of those people, but I'm just wanted to clarify

Nicole 18:09
It was me. I was confused. Let's be honest.

Carrie 18:14
You're testing groundwater.

Jamie 18:16
Yes. And it's especially important in Wisconsin because of our agricultural use.

Carrie 18:21
Yes. That makes sense.

Jamie 18:22
So a lot of manure application, depending on where you're at in the state, you know, how the geology is the manure that spread on the fields can sometimes get down into your groundwater. So it's important for us to

Danie 18:37
And what happens if it's say higher than you want it to be.

Jamie 18:40
Well, you don't want any in there at all.

Danie 18:42
Oh, right. So any is too high. Yes.

Nicole 18:45
I have a story. Sorry. I have a story, guys. So I went. So I was homeschooled. So I went to I gotta push that in there every single time. But when I one of our I went to like a little church for a little day camp, whatever, and I drink out of a, like a fountain and then that night I got violently ill. And then I found out a lot of other people got violently ill. And we found out that that church accidentally had an overflow of their sewer. And it got into the drinking water. So I know firsthand that that's not good. And it hurt.

Jamie 19:35
It's really bad. Really bad. Yeah.

Carrie 19:37
How old were you?

Nicole 19:38
I was seven or eight.

Carrie 19:40
You remember it?

Nicole 19:41
Oh, yeah, I had to go to the emergency room because I couldn't breathe.

Danie 19:45

Nicole 19:45
Yeah. It was like I was puking that much that I couldn't breathe. I couldn't stop myself. And then the minute I got in the car to go to the ER, I got better. My parents hate me for that one.

Danie 19:57
How long were you sick for?

Nicole 19:59
I was sick for a full night. I think I couldn't. I was I was focusing on trying to just breathe for a solid three hours.

Carrie 20:08
Oh my goodness.

Nicole 20:08
Yeah. And then I went to the ER and I got a teddy bear.

Danie 20:12
So it was kind of a win win.

Nicole 20:14
Yeah, still to this day. I can't drink out of a drinking from

Carrie 20:18

Danie 20:20
also interesting that you call it a drinking fountain. What do you call it, Carrie?

Carrie 20:23
drinking fountain.

Nicole 20:24
What do you call it? Danie?

Danie 20:25

Nicole 20:26

Carrie 20:27
Weird. No,

Danie 20:29
We always call it a bubbler.

Nicole 20:30

Danie 20:31

Nicole 20:32
What do you call it Jamie?

Jamie 20:33
drinking fountain

Nicole 20:34
Yeah, see? Okay, cool.

Danie 20:37
So what do you do? If you find out that there is poop in the water.

Jamie 20:41
Yeah. Before I answer that, I want to ask Nicole - Do you remember what you got? What you were diagnosed with at all? Or was it just,

Nicole 20:48
it was just um, they didn't they couldn't really do anything because the minute I got to the ER, they couldn't really do a lot of tests because I was better and everything was out of my system. So they couldn't Much. The only way we found out was we found on other kids got it too. And then they linked it back to Oh, yeah, this

Jamie 21:10
that's, that's really common in like epidemiology studies.

Danie 21:13
Really? What does that mean? Epidemiology?

Jamie 21:14
Yeah. Um, so I'd have to Google it. I'm sure it's, you know, like Greek or Latin for something, but it's generally studying, like the spread of disease in the human population. Okay. So, so they will use things like, you know how much Pepto bismol at this Walgreens was purchased. Was it above average, and then they'll look and see... They're like the detectives of public health. It's kind of cool. That's

Danie 21:48
that's what they should call themselves.

Jamie 21:49
Get themselves some badges, man.

Danie 21:51
Yeah, you can be the detective of poop and water.

Jamie 21:54
Yes. I was. Yeah, that's Yeah. So What was the question you asked me before because I totally forgot.

Danie 22:04
Oh, I said what happens if there is poop in the water? What do you do if you find it?

Jamie 22:11
Generally you bleach it.

Danie 22:12
The the groundwater?

Jamie 22:14

Danie 22:14
How do you bleach? How do you bleach groundwater

Jamie 22:17
through the well opening. So if you have groundwater there's going to be a well where they literally drill down into the ground and put a pump in there to pump the water up. Okay, so you have an access point down to the water, and you literally like

Danie 22:32
and isn't bleach bad, though too.

Jamie 22:34
It's not great. But...

Danie 22:36
better than poop.

Jamie 22:37
Yes. Okay.

Nicole 22:38
What about you said you mentioned agricultural stuff. How does that affect agricultural stuff?

Like the poop in the water?

Jamie 22:47
Oh, if there's poop in the water? Yeah. Well, you don't want your cows and calves drinking that either. Yeah,

Danie 22:55
I mean, well, they get sick as well.

Jamie 22:57
Yeah, they can their natural carriers for a lot of the stuff that makes us violently ill interesting. Yeah,

Danie 23:02
so maybe a dumb question. But how come when Nicole had poop in her water? Yeah, she became violently ill but say a dog. Yeah, just eat a whole turd. And not violently. Yeah, right.

Jamie 23:21
It has more to do with their gut flora, like they can. It's like, if you grew up in maybe a third world country where the water wasn't so good, you can drink the water, but as the first world person going and visiting, you know, the don't drink the water thing, you know, make sure, that - they've developed kind of a natural immunity to that stuff. Okay, whereas

Danie 23:42
that makes sense.

Jamie 23:43
We have not,

Nicole 23:44
right, interesting. I mean, so.

So what drew you to this? Can I ask that?

Jamie 23:50

Nicole 23:51
Okay. Oh really? Is it really good money?

Jamie 23:55
Since I was a kid, I wanted to be in the sciences. I always I I always knew that

Nicole 24:00
science! Oh shoot.

Jamie 24:09
We need to work on the timing.

I always knew I wanted to do science. I went in all through high school is just like, yeah, I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. When I got to college, I was like, Okay, well, my mom's a nurse. And I've, you know, done some volunteer work at the hospital. That's kind of where my first job was. I figured, well, you know, I'll just try something in that field. So I went in for like, pre physician assistant. And after one year of human anat and Phys is I was not doing it. Yeah. So I was kind of driftless for about a year until a good friend of mine said, well, you're going to need microbiology. Anyway. So why don't you check out this microbiology class. I'd never heard of it? Really? It wasn't something that was studied in high school ever. Yeah, like for us anyway? No, no, yeah. But the department was really, really cool. I kind of found my people and was like, Oh, yeah, this is nice. I like this. And then when I graduated, I was looking for a job. And they said, all the jobs I applied for they said, You're not even remotely qualified. Oh, so Okay, well, what do I need to be qualified and they said, okay, a master's degree would get you into this type of position. So 2006 I got my master's degree.

This was right before the economy crashed.

Danie 25:40
Oh, no. It's really perfect timing.

Jamie 25:44
Perfect timing.

So yeah, I I ended up getting hooked up with my advisor, Sharon, who was brand new to the university so she had a research grants that was able to pay me an assistantship So I learned to really like poop and groundwater because I got an assistantship to get through my graduate school.

Danie 26:06
Yeah, that makes sense. And that's where your experience was. So it probably just made the most sense. Yeah, right to continue to go in that area.

Carrie 26:13
But you didn't work on poop ig water until you until

Jamie 26:16
I got to graduate school.


Carrie 26:18
Okay. So you just kind of kind of fell into it.

Jamie 26:21
Yep. Yeah, I definitely fell into it.

Carrie 26:23
And you were happy you did?

Jamie 26:25
More or less?

Carrie 26:25
Good? Fell into the poop in water.

Jamie 26:30
It's really fun when we go to the State Fair, and we run around and collect all the different poop from the different animals.

Nicole 26:35
Oh, that would be fun.

Danie 26:38
Do you get to go to the state fair for free?

Nicole 26:40
Yeah. That would be cool.

Jamie 26:43
When I was in research, or when I was in graduate school, it was covered by the state. So my ticket to the State Fair was graciously covered by the state so I could collect poop samples.

Danie 26:53
Could you ride the rides in between collecting the poop.

Jamie 26:56
We didn't have time. I probably could have, but we didn't.

Nicole 26:58
There's too much poop out there.

Danie 26:59
Yes. There's too much poop to collect. Got it. And just for my own curiosity, when you collect it is how much are you collecting? Is it like a test tubes worth? Is it like a larger amount?

Jamie 27:15
More or less. No, it's we had 50 milliliter. Okay, slowly slow screw cap tubes. So we, I don't know if you can imagine what 50 milliliters is like,

Danie 27:25
like, like how I would imagine a large test tube-ish

Jamie 27:29
Yeah, I would say

Danie 27:30
cool in my, my eighth grade science kit, we had test tubes and that's how I know how big they are

Jamie 27:39
Your test tube knowledge

Danie 27:40
My test tube knowledge is vast. From one of those little mailing kit, you know you could rip the little card out of a probably an Archie comic book. That's what I was reading at the time. And you could mail it in for 8.95 plus shipping and handling. Now you could get your own science kit.

Women AF 27:58

Danie 27:59
So Okay, so So were you really smart in high school?

Yes we did it!

Jamie 28:12

Danie 28:16
You say it like that. Why?

Jamie 28:20
I could have been a lot of things? But I ended up being smart.

Danie 28:24
Was it? Wait? So we all have different high school experiences. So as Nicole has mentioned on every episode shw as homeschool and was until she was in High School. Carrie, I went to a private school, which you already know. And then Carrie went to a public high school. So we've all had very different experiences. And so I feel like different schools like different things are cool. So at your school, was it cool to be smart?

Jamie 28:56
Not really, no, not really.

Danie 28:57
Were you cool? in my head You were.

Jamie 28:59
No, Definitely not.

Danie 29:04
Did you ever feel pressured to dumb down the smartness?

Jamie 29:08
Oh, yeah,

Danie 29:09
to have more friends or be cool or whatever.

Jamie 29:12
Maybe not in high school, because I really didn't care but I feel that I would say I feel more now. Okay. Yeah,

Danie 29:20
yeah. In what environments?

Jamie 29:22
Maybe not now now, but I think when I was dating in my early 30s it was definitely pressure to be to not let on as much as I know. Okay, and even for applying for jobs right after graduation when I got my masters I literally had to leave my master's degree off of my resume. Really, because I couldn't get a job.

Danie 29:46
Because you were overqualified.

Jamie 29:47
I was overqualified.

So playing dumb is... So I've done that for quite a while

Danie 29:54
in like the dating world. How How did that impact like Would you go out and like meet people and then realize like, in the moment that you'd have to play it down? Or was it even to get that initial communication? Or like, at what point did you feel the most pressure to like, downplay it socially,

Jamie 30:15
until I knew they were like a real geek kind of like me, and then it'd be like, Oh, yeah, I you know, these, this, this and that, but right, then until I knew their geek cred.

Danie 30:33
out there, right. Yeah, I can. I can see that. And do you? Do you feel it now in your professional career at all?

Jamie 30:39

Danie 30:40
Did you at any point like after you landed a job? Did you still feel like you had to like, downplay your awesomeness?

Jamie 30:47
Yeah. Yeah, I would say.

Danie 30:49
So. Can you talk a little bit more about what it's like to be a smart woman in the career realm or what it's like to be... Let me, do you understand? My question is should I try to reword it to make more sense?

Jamie 31:06
Maybe it may be a little rerfreshing the question?

Danie 31:08
I think a lot of times as women in our variety of career fields, right, like there's different aspects of ourselves, we feel that we need to downplay whether it's leadership or what people like to call bossiness, which is a you know, podcast topic all in itself, or whether it's like I've heard of people who've, like, dressed say, a little bit less attractive because they felt like people people being attracted to them was, like physically attracted to them was, you know, getting in the way or smartness, having to dumb that down or make it seem like you're not as smart or, you know, maybe downplaying your experience like of how much experience you have to make other people feel comfortable. Like Can you talk about what your experience has been like? Just being maybe the smartest person in the room and like how that feels like in your career path.

Jamie 32:06
In my career path, it It hasn't, except for right after graduate school, it really hasn't been too bad. Because again, the economy was crap. And I had I just was happy to accept a job at that point. And I had I had to hide my master's degree and then I had to go to my boss later and be like, Oh, yeah, I have this I hid this and but I'm, I just wanted to, I just need money right now. So please don't fire me. But once I got a couple years experience under my belt, I didn't feel like it was as necessary to hide it.

Danie 32:41
Not once you have like, the career experience?

Jamie 32:42
it's that weird, like conundrum of you know, you have to have an internship to get this job, but you can't have this job until you have the, you know, it's like, yeah,

Danie 32:52
yeah, you need experience, get the job, but you can't have the job without experience.

Jamie 32:57
Right? Yeah, yeah,

Danie 32:58
yeah, I get that. A lot.

Jamie 33:00
entry level position must have eight years experience. Yeah.

Danie 33:05
I actually also lied on my resume to get my first big corporate job. But I lied the other way and said I had a degree when I didn't. Maybe don't do that. Similar it was the economy was down. I needed a job. Yeah. You know, they, they believed me.

Carrie 33:26
We're lucky,

Nicole 33:27
right? Yeah. Yes.

Danie 33:30
So don't do that. This is not me giving you advice. And I did eventually get that degree. It just took another 10 years.

Nicole 33:40
But you got it.

Danie 33:41
But I got it!

Nicole 33:44
Can I ask a question? How is is your field? I know. I mean, is it mostly men? Is it mostly women like what is the ratio?

Jamie 33:55
I've been really, really lucky. So this kind of answers some of Danie's earlier questions. And yours. microbiology is a field that's, It's got a lot of women in it, at least especially on the lab. Yeah, and the things the research end where most of my studies and my interests lie is on the research side.

My undergraduate research professor was a woman. And then my graduate research professor was also a woman. So I've been really, really lucky to have very strong women in science role models around me from the get go. So as far as like schooling and that kind of stuff, I've never had felt like I needed to play down my intelligence around them because I looked up to them and they're smart as hell,

Danie 34:45
right. So So you've had a lot of people to inspire you on your career path.

Jamie 34:49
Yes, absolutely.

Danie 34:49
Can you share some stories about maybe the biggest moments of inspiration or just some one person or multiple people who really like stand out to you as Like people who are like, ah, they're awesome.

Jamie 35:06
People I know personally or like

Danie 35:08
or people just in the industry, maybe that inspire you, it doesn't have to be somebody that you know, personally.

Jamie 35:17
kind of got you stumped on that one. I mean both of my advisor, research advisors. Bonnie in undergraduate and Sharon in graduate school, we're both you know, I very much looked up to them. Professors, you know, respected in their, in their field in their, in the microbiology departments in the soil science department. I see that they struggled with that kind of stuff a lot. You know, especially in academia, there's a very strong bias for inherently even in women, a bias towards men against women. Yeah. And I've seen them had to fight it. But, you know, I think their struggles, maybe are paving the way a little bit for people like me. I guess.

Danie 36:19
Do you consider yourself a role model. Now for the next generation of young girls in STEM

Jamie 36:26
I don't think I'm a role model for anybody.

Nicole 36:30
What do you think makes a good role model? I guess that's a question for anybody too - what do you guys think makes a good role model? Danie, what do you think?

Danie 36:39
Let's see, um, the people that I personally find the most inspirational are people who know who they are. Yeah. And who are not afraid to own who there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Whatever that means, right. Like my last boss at my last Job is one of my favorite people. And I was a tech job. Or we were in we were, we created software, a tech software. And so it's male dominated. The people that are, I would say we were maybe one, one out of five people at that company were women. So there was a lot of guys, basically, and I don't think I have ever seen anybody walk into a tense situation and own it to the level that she could really Yeah. Like what you know, people say like, harnessing their Sasha Fierce or whatever. Yeah, like, I like to harness my Trisha. Like that. She brought that. And she also to that same degree, though, was not afraid to own when she didn't know something. Yeah. And I think that that speaks to a lot of confidence. You have to be really confident to say that you don't know something.

Jamie 38:03
Yeah, absolutely.

Danie 38:04
Or that you did something wrong or you messed up in some way. And so she always did that. And I think that that's pretty cool. Yeah. What about you guys, either of you.

Carrie 38:13
Yeah, I was gonna say I'm kind of along those same lines is willing to make mistakes and accept that and own that and then turn it around and fight through it. That's that's admirable to me.

Danie 38:31
Yeah, I agree.

Jamie 38:33
I would say people that are specifically women who have overcome adversity, and fought through and still, you know, I wouldn't say kept their head down but kept their get their head up and kept going and continue to do their work and power through and made a name for themselves. Yeah.

Danie 38:53
And sometimes and this kind of goes back to a separate conversation you and I were having over Christmas is like sometimes I feel like owning yourself is in that moment, doing the thing that you need to do to survive or like to get past this moment. And then like, for example, we were talking about sexual harassment. And in that, I don't know if you remember the conversation which is totally fine if you don't. But we were talking about I had experienced we I went out for a Christmas party with some of my co workers.

Jamie 39:26
Oh, Yes, Yes, I remember that.

Danie 39:28
And we were we were at a bar and I was trying to be young hanging out with the youths which was a bad idea. We were at this college bar downtown and had to wait in line to get in and I was just like, why am I even here? Like the average age in this bar is 21. But I wanted to hang. It was already way past my bedtime and I'm like, okay, so We get up there we're trying to like hook a friend of ours up with somebody or like just get him talking to you know, real people.

Carrie 40:09

Jamie 40:10
Um, what are those

Danie 40:12
Oh you know, flesh and blood human. Oh yeah. Just get you know. And so we were all playing the part of wingman or wingwoman and this guy like came in with our party like pretending to be with us because we we paid off the doorman to get in. Which again, I don't even know why we're here. We're paying. We're paying off like bouncers whatever

Jamie 40:43
You're so old you had to bribe the guy to get in the door.

Danie 40:44
That's the truth. We had to bribe the bouncer to let the grandparents in. And then we got in. And we then have to bribe another bouncer to get up on the top floor.

Nicole 41:01

Jamie 41:01
okay, why? Why? What's on the top floor?

Danie 41:03
I was just another floor or people I don't know. So many people and I'm claustrophobic and I'm just like, okay, there's too many people they're all young everyone's loud. You should be in bed. I could be at home with my slippers on watching Cold Case Files. Yeah, you know, but I'm here so we're having a we're having fun okay. And so I got really distracted but anyway so we we got up there and this guy is like talking to us and as we're waiting in line, like this guy standing next to me next to me so I'm talking to him because I I just talked to people if they're by me, and we were talking about our kids. There was nothing in this conversation that could have been misconstrued in any level. Yeah, okay. So we get up to the third floor and like he's standing next to me, but at this point, I'm not even talking to him. And he leans over in in a real creepy whisper. Oh, before this, he tells me that he's, he's married. He's got kids. He's on. He's here on business. So I'm like, oh, cool, you know, like, check out downtown or whatever, while you're here. It's Yeah, this thing is cooler. That thing's cool. Whatever. So I said to I was talking to my friends and like, he leans over and he goes, I just really want to grab your ass right now. In my ear, like where you can feel their breath. And I was like, you better fucking not. And then he walked away. And I was like, Okay, yeah, and then I told my friends, okay, this guy is being a creep. So like, Don't let him by us because he's creepy. Okay, so he didn't come back for a while. We were talking and I had to go the bathroom. So we went to the bathroom and I came back and motherfucker is waiting outside the bathroom and follows me back to the our group of friends. And at this point I'm like, this guy is clearly a serial killer and I will die. So, I tucked myself inside my friend so my back was to the bar and I put all five of my friends in between me and this guy,. And I said, Okay, this guy followed me to the bathroom. And then one of them started yelling at him. And you know, and then he left and it was fine we I was we I got home safe he didn't follow us whatever he left after my friend yell at him, but when I came back I felt like this huge amount of guilt of like not being the one to do the you know, I mean, not to be the one to like confront him and like Yeah, I just hiding behind my friends and yeah, like that was like a really a moment that I should have been, like,

Jamie 43:49
you were just trying to survive, right? You were, you're probably replaying every single murder podcast.

Danie 43:56
Yeah. and there is a lot.

Carrie 43:58
Yeah. If at the moment, you're feeling threatened? Yeah, you might hide and that is totally fine. Yeah, totally.

Nicole 44:04
But also, let's take note did you actually physically say like you better fucking not.

Danie 44:09
Oh, yeah, I did say that.

Nicole 44:11
Yeah, that's really I would have been like, ah, and ran through.

Carrie 44:16
Yeah, that's all he took it up a notch and then you then you took it up a notch went up a notch. Yeah, yes. And that's why you were like someone else get in here and deal with it.

Nicole 44:24
And cool. Cool you had friends to do that. Like that's really really good. Like you weren't alone in this situation or

Jamie 44:33
and that you told somebody

Nicole 44:34
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jamie 44:36
You told your friends and they knew what was going on. And you weren't just like slinking to the back and just keeping everything to yourself because right there, no one else was going to notice. Yeah. Yep. It's unfortunate but it is

Danie 44:50
Everyone is kind of distracted with their own mating rituals, right. When you're in college,

Jamie 44:57
counting out your bills for the bouncer.

Danie 44:59
Getting up to the third floor trying to figure out are these people of age that honestly, we actually had a bed at one point to see if we could get some of the girls that were up there to show us their IDs. To see if they were real IDs? No way. Anyway, so clearly we were the coolest people at this bar and hanging out with the youths.

Nicole 45:26
Yeah, good job. That's really good.

Danie 45:29
I hung until three!

Carrie 45:32
Oh, That sounds terrible.

Danie 45:34
It really was. It was a Thursday night night too. So we took a hard Derail from science.. Oh, sorry, should we do that again? A hard derail from science

Women AF 45:55

Danie 45:57
We did it by the end of the episode, but it was Definitely an entertaining conversation we learned a lot about poop and water. Yeah. And if anyone is interested in sending questions, specifically to Jamie, if you can send them to our email at womenafpodcast@gmail.com contact us on our website or on all the socials Instagram Facebook Twitter at WomenAFpodcast and we will ask Jamie and you know if everyone's a fan we will bring her back on

Jamie 46:27
Yes. I have so many more topics

Danie 46:31
Lots of stuff that we didn't get to. So yeah, I did feel really fast. Well once you start talking about poop in water

Jamie 46:38
Oh man. Time just flies.

Carrie 46:41
Don't forget about cake farts. Oh

Danie 46:44
That really could be an episode in and of itself.

Jamie 46:48
Well, thank you so much for having me here.

Danie 46:49
It's past everyone's bedtime. So we're gonna go Thank you for listening. We are Women AF and we know you are to.

Women AF 47:11
Women AF is produced by mortar box media and engineered by Adam Rostad intro and outro music is Sq z by Shane ivers, check them out at Silvermansound.com and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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